TPG vs UP list of changes/Mods: Update to first list

[Schu]

Hi all. I put this short list together in order to update the info on the TPG and to let Tessera remove an out of date list (the first one I posted). As you will notice, I added quite a bit to the TP v504at and the TPG that was not on my first list. This was not done as a compromise, or to kiss ass. It is to keep the list honest and fair. As many, if not all know, I have no love for what Wesp5 has done to the UP. That said, I do not want opinion or argument, I want unbiased information and or facts (please show proof), to keep both lists honest, and I will up-date as needed. Too end, my opinions are my own, we all have them, and some may even agree with mine, but that doesn't mean I can't make an unbiased list. So read on and form your own.

This is nothing more than a list of game play changes/alterations (some of which may be considered fixes), that have been done by the creators of the different fan made patches. They are not in chronological or any kind of order, But I did put down the month and year of the last known update.


Quick and dirty VPK Tool set/Turvy   v1.0 to v3.9      Unknown
I know this isn't a patch, but it is one of the easiest and coolest fan made tool sets I've seen


Unofficial Patch/DanUpright    v.01 to v1.2   5/2005

Unfortunately I can no longer find his work on the web and I dont have any back-ups. If I remember right, he made few  game play changes. So here is what I do remember.
UPDATE: I did find a copy of Dans work on the web, v1.2 to be exact.

Being able to tell Strauss you solved his gargoyle problem even if you didn't know he had a gargoyle problem   (MOD)
Skipping the tutorial now gives lockpicks, the .38 and 2 xp                                (MOD)
Isaac should give everyone a gift for completing the king's way quest                 (MOD)
You be awarded even if you don't make it to beckett before the timer runs out    (MOD)
You should now get xp for completing the replacing lily quest                             (MOD)
As stated in another thread, you dont get XP for replacing Lily, this is only supposed to make you solid with Vandal again.
Undid a previous mess I'd made of Gary's poster quests - should work as originally intended now    (Dan Broke)
Patch now automated (and merged with leopatch)                                     (MOD)

True Patch/Acrimonious & Tessera   v504at to Gold Edition Final      8/2011

I will not list before the v504at because it was based upon the UP being stripped down to only bug fixes. I will however mention their original work here, which started with the v504at patch, which has numerous bug fixes as well as some game play and visual changes.

This is an exact quote from the v504at ReadMe:
The True VTMB Patch was constructed entirely from scratch by Acrimonious and Tessera. It is not
based upon *any* previous works which may have been created by other parties. Not even a little
bit... as the beta testers from tessmage.com can definitely attest to. We began with a clean,
unmodified version of Bloodlines and then proceeded to uncover and repair as many critical
bugs and glitches as we could find within the original game. In fact, the entire procedure of
unpacking and repairing VTMB was very well chronicled on the tessmage.com Forums during the
painstaking development of the True VTMB Patch version 5.04AT and those threads have been archived.
Let us reassure you that no packets of code or snippets of data have been copied or "borrowed"
from anyone else's work. That is a guaranteed fact. In every sense, this patch represents a
truly original work by Acrimonious and Tessera. It is in fact the most stable, reliable and
bug-free third-party patch available for Bloodlines to date.

TP-v504at changes:

Fixed conditions in Tourette's dialogue - this makes it "harder" to reconcile Therese and Jeanette   (FIX)
Even though it did make it harder to reconcile the sisters, this is a legitimate repair.
Gave roof guards sniper and assault rifles instead of shotguns and uzis/SOCIETY OF LEOPOLD       (FIX)
Made flamethrower a tad easier to find/HOLLOWBROOK                  (FIX)
The flamethrower was partially clipping through nearby objects and as such, it was unnecessarily difficult to see.
Added zoom sway effect to SWAT sniper rifle, and adjusted its base damage            (MOD)(FIX)
Several missing textures have been recreated/restored with custom-made textures by Tessera      (FIX)
Textures for the "Jock Shot" video tape, this was a very controversial change when released      (FIX)
This fix was done due to missing/lack of appropriate textures, thou subject matter may offend some
Hid Bertrum's CD from non Nosferatu/HOLLYWOOD                        (FIX)
Even thou there is dialogue for some clans other than Nosferatu, only the email gos to the Nosferatu.
Additional Malkavian dialogue restored/rewritten in the few cases where it was absolutely necessary        (FIX)
Instructions on how to enable the clan history's.
Some effects in player Histories have been modified in the True Patch to avoid known buggy behavior.

TP-Gold Edition changes:
Though there have been some alterations in the TPG there are no game play changes, mostly bug fixes and repairs.

Moved the Confession Club PC dance trigger to bypass the rendering bug.            (FIX)
Technically a fix, the rendering bug did kill immersion in first or third person
Appropriate idle behavior restored/added to Therese Voerman, courtesy of Acrimonious and Tessera.   (MOD)
This to me adds to the immersion, because the sisters move around now.
A texture rendering glitch in the female Toreador player model has been corrected.         (FIX)
Several misfiring audio files have been located and restored to their correct locations.         (FIX)
Hundreds of subtitle dialogue errors have been identified and repaired.               (FIX)
A texture rendering error involving Yukie in Chinatown has likewise been corrected.         (FIX)
Quite a few new map repairs. (check patch-notes for more detailed info)               (FIX)
Free Lily fix: original data courtesy of DDLulu and posted publicly in April, 2010         (FIX)
Pre-compiled node graphs and location data added. This was done to prevent the AI disabled issue.   (FIX)
Core engine repairs, memory allocation fix and DX9 updates: Tessera, Jordi, some public info posted by "SomeJ*Doe" and a group of Russian and eastern Euro hackers who shall remain nameless.
Some documentation has been added to a new "Docs" sub-folder
A much more thorough explanation of these changes can be found in the True_Patch_GOLD_Edition_Patch_Notes.
Once the TPG folder has been unzipped you will find an “Extras” folder, this folder is “NOT” part of the patch itself. It contains an “Optional Mods” folder and a “Utility” folder which has the a res patcher and Turvys tools among others.
There are also some helpful hints in the documentation for the res-patcher which will allow you to push the graphics quality
All v504at changes still apply to the Gold Edition. v504at had 6 hotfixes, the TPG has had 5.

Unofficial Patch: Stripped/Offkorn   Beta v1.0 to Beta v2.01      5/2008

Changes are numerous due to altering the "UP 5.3 Basic" to bug fixes only. Stripped has some minor changes, mostly dialog, that were added/altered/repaired or restored. Unfortunately this never made it to a final version.
Number of changes in all = 1621 (now you see why I didn't list them)

Quoted from Offkorn:

What it is: The Unofficial Patch: Stripped is a stripped down version of the Basic Version contained within Wesp's Unofficial Patch.

Layman's Terms: All of the non-bugfix tweaks and additions still contained within the Basic Version of Wesp's Unofficial Patch are removed. Leaving behind something that theoretically conforms to Unofficial Patch standards.


Unofficial Patch Basic/Wesp5      v3.6 to v7.6b      7/2011

I am not going to list the Unofficial Patch on this thread because it already exists on another thread that no one even bothers to read anyway. Mostly because of its extensive length (2 full posts, or about 20+ pages). If you want to see that list then check out the link below, but be forewarned it is a long list.

http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index.php/topic,57843.0.html

[Tessera]

I am compelled to respectfully disagree with some of your classifications regarding version 5.04AT of the True Patch.

I will start with the controversial Jock Shot video tape...

First, let's keep in mind that the Jock Shot issue falls under the category of "Several missing textures have been recreated/restored with custom-made textures by Tessera," which you have already classified as a "Fix."

There was no texture in the original game for the Jock Shot video tape. The texture simply did not exist. So instead, the engine was using the same texture as it uses for the Deathmask snuff film. Obviously, that is completely wrong... because in the default game, the Jock Shot tape was showing up in our inventory with the "Deathmask" label on it. It was the wrong texture.

Therefore, a new texture had to be created... if we wanted the Jock Shot video to look different from the Deathmask snuff film.

The reason I created a texture with a topless girl on the cover is because of Gary's own description of that video, as well as Troika's own tool tip. In his e-mail to the player, Gary describes the Jock Shot video as being "two hard, pointy reasons why it was pulled from the store shelves," or some such words to that effect. Which implies that the Jock Shot video featured bare breasts on its cover. Imalia's bare breasts, in this case.

Also, the tool tip for the Jock Shot video says "90 percent chance that someone has gone wild." This is obviously a reference to those "Girls Gone Wild" videos that were popular back when Bloodlines was released. For those who may not be familiar, the Girls Gone Wild series of videos consist of lots and lots of college age girls being induced to expose their breasts in public. Well, let's take a look at one of those video covers... from 2003, the year during which Bloodlines was in its early development:



That's a pretty racy cover. So what I did was to combine the two different descriptions in my imagination and then, I created a new texture accordingly.... based upon the Girls Gone Wild videos, as well as Gary's description of "two hard, pointy reasons" (which is obviously a reference to bare nipples).

BELOW: the controversial Jock Shot video texture from the True Patch version 5.04AT, created by yours truly:



So, all things considered, I do not think that it is appropriate to refer to this custom repair as a mod. One way or another, that video tape needed to have its own unique texture. Just as the "Tap Hotel" video likewise needed its own unique texture. Well, then what sort of texture would you create, for a video which was unambiguously described as featuring bare breasts..? I had a decision to make... so I based my decision upon the typical video tape covers that one sees from Girls Gone Wild, Maxim and Playboy. I also based my decision upon the fact that Bloodlines is a game which already features nudity in its default version (such as the girls inside Vesuvius, who are almost entirely bare-breasted). Lastly, I based my decision upon the stipulation that this video was a "swimsuit issue," so I used a small photo of a model wearing a Rudy Gernreich topless bathing suit. Hence the final texture that was added to version 5.04AT, which features a topless Imalia on the cover. I feel that my choice of graphic imagery is entirely consistent with the in-game descriptions of the item in question.

*************

My second protest has to do with the decision to alter the weaponry used by the hunters at the Leopold Stronghold. We have covered this issue before in the past, but I want to respond to it again here.

In the default Leopold map, Troika had apparently been rushed for time... because they populated that map with exact clones of the generic hunters that we encounter in the earlier stages of the game. But meanwhile, the player is ENORMOUSLY more powerful, by the time we reach the late game stages. Which in turn meant that the Leopold hunters were essentially attacking us with pea shooters. All of them were armed with gimpy generic early-game weaponry, such as .38 pistols. Troika had even placed a guard on the roof of the Leopold house... and he too was armed with a .38 pistol. That particular weapon does not even have the RANGE to hit the player from that high up off the ground. Another hunter was 200 feet away from the player, but armed with a shotgun. This too is a weapon which is incapable of hitting the player from that far away.

Hence: in the default game, there was almost no risk whatsoever to the player. This was clearly a mistake on Troika's part.

So clearly, the Leopold hunters were simply a rush job. We already know the history of this game... and we should all be aware that Troika was very pressed for time during the final acts of Bloodlines. That happens to be why the late game contains such a large number of bugs... as well as a large percentage of "recycled content," for lack of a better term.

Back when we were assembling version 5.04AT of the True Patch, Acrimonious felt that the weaponry being used by the Leopold hunters was entirely inconsistent with the level of weaponry that the player was encountering everywhere else in the late game. At first, I was opposed to the notion of changing their weaponry... because I was concerned that it might be construed by others as being a mod, and not a fix. But after hearing him out, I decided that Acrimonious was right: the hunter models had indeed simply been cloned from much earlier stages of the game and indeed, their weaponry was entirely too wimpy as compared to every other late-game adversary.

In order to maintain a consistent level of challenge during the late-game, we finally made the decision to assign new weaponry to the Leopold hunters. Acrimonious selected weapons which were consistent with what we had been dealing with everywhere else during that stage of the game: Steyr Aug automatic rifles, Colt Magnum pistols, and so forth. The same weapons that we had already encountered in fights which take place in other late-game locations, such as the Glaze club and the Zhao Imports warehouse in Chinatown.

There is no question that our decision has made the Leopold map much more challenging to navigate, as compared to the default version of that map. But I do not think Troika wanted the player to have an easy ride through one of the very last areas of the game. In our carefully considered opinion, those hunter models were simply a rush job... they were copy/pasted from earlier maps. So we fixed them, by giving them weaponry which is entirely consistent with all of the other late-game weaponry which the player encounters.

Respectfully submitted,

- Tessera -

[Schu]

The Jock Shot video has been controversial since day one. The reasoning behind my calling it a MOD is because of the top less picture, and nothing else. It is obvious that Troika was being  rushed because of the copying the snuff video textures, or they may have simply forgot to change it to something more appropriate when the time came (it is a little thing in a big game after all). There is one other possibility thou. We all know that the prudes at Activision had forced Troika to cut a considerable amount of stuff from the game, even though it was already in it. Maybe this was one that Activision caught before the textures were finished.
Added to designation.

Back when we were assembling version 5.04AT of the True Patch, Acrimonious felt that the weaponry being used by the Leopold hunters was entirely inconsistent with the level of weaponry that the player was encountering everywhere else in the late game. At first, I was opposed to the notion of changing their weaponry... because I was concerned that it might be construed by others as being a mod, and not a fix. But after hearing him out, I decided that Acrimonious was right: the hunter models had indeed simply been cloned from much earlier stages of the game and indeed, their weaponry was entirely too wimpy as compared to every other late-game adversary.

In order to maintain a consistent level of challenge during the late-game, we finally made the decision to assign new weaponry to the Leopold hunters. Acrimonious selected weapons which were consistent with what we had been dealing with everywhere else during that stage of the game: Steyr Aug automatic rifles, Colt Magnum pistols, and so forth. The same weapons that we had already encountered in fights which take place in other late-game locations, such as the Glaze club and the Zhao Imports warehouse in Chinatown.

Now, the quote above is what I mean by proof or good reason for me to change a comment or alter a designation. Tessera gave a good and well considered argument why he doesn't agree with my calling the changes on the Society of Leopold roof, a "MOD". So, technicely it is a warrented change. Because that level is to easy compared to your characters level of power.
Designation changed.

It is apparent that I still have some editing to do. I just noticed that I forgot to assign designations to DanUprights work.

[Tessera]

The reasoning behind my calling it a MOD is because of the top less picture, and nothing else.

And this is what I do not understand.

So if I had created a blank texture, with just the words "Jock Shot Swimsuit Issue" on it, then that wouldn't be a mod..? But if I actually put a topless girl on the cover, then suddenly it IS a mod..?

You're saying that if there are tits, then it's a mod... but if there are no tits, then it's not a mod..?

That simply makes no sense at all, Schu. Gary's own description of that tape states that it was "pulled from the store shelves." Okay... why would K-Mart or whatever pull a video tape from their shelves..? Because of the content..? Nope, because K-Mart sells Playboy videos. Then what other reason is left..? The answer comes from Gary himself: "Two hard, pointy reasons."

That's a reference to stiff nipples, obviously. Gary is saying that the Jock Shot video was pulled from the shelves because it featured bare nipples on the cover. What other reason could there be..?


Now let's think about some other VTMB trivia:

(1) Troika wanted to have more nudity in this game, but they were censored by ActiVision. How do we know this..? Two reasons. First, there are the original models and textures for the topless dancers inside Vesuvius. There is evidence that the tassels on those models were added after they had been originally constructed. As a matter of fact, the original texture for the topless dancers... which is still present on the VTMB install disks... very clearly features bare breasts and bare nipples. But later, the tassels were added and their nipples were forcibly covered. The rest of their breasts remain bare in the default game, however.

(2) And how do we know that this change was due to censorship imposed upon Troika..? Well, the best clue that we have is an Easter egg, which happens to be located up on one of the inside walls of Vesuvius. Head over to where Misti hangs out and then, look at the picture of the stripper on the wall behind her. Look very closely at it. You will see that it has a bar across the stripper's breasts, with the words "NO BOOBIES" written on it. Now, why would the artists at Troika place such a thing into the game... and inside a strip joint, no less..? As I read it, that is obviously an expression of frustration on the part of the artists and modelers, who clearly wanted their strippers to be fully topless. But when the dictatorial assholes at ActiVision forcibly censored that idea, the artists at Troika retaliated... by placing that barely hidden message inside Vesuvius. To me, it reads "Hey -- this wasn't our idea."


My point is that Troika wanted there to be more nudity in Bloodlines. There are clues to this fact all over the game files. They even wanted the strippers inside Vesuvius to be giving out blowjobs to the male patrons... but that too was apparently censored in the 11th hour. Incidentally, the evidence for this can be found within the map file for Vesuvius (hw_vesuvius_1.bsp).

I took all of the above into account when I was creating the Jock Shot texture. I knew for certain that Troika had originally wanted there to be more nudity in the game, for reasons that I have already explained. And I knew that they had been censored against their will by ActiVision. And I also knew that the video tape in question was described as having bare breasts on its cover.

So that's what I did: I gave the Jock Shot video a texture which is consistent with all of the above. And since I could care less about ActiVision and their childish censorship, I instead remained faithful to Troika's less repressed attitude and I went ahead with the addition of a topless graphic.

In summation, it seems rather repressed to call a topless texture a mod, but a non-topless texture a fix. Especially when you consider all of the above points. This is not a game for prudish little kids... Bloodlines is an R-rated game, intended for mature players.

So once again, I respectfully disagree with your classification of that texture as being a mod. I feel that it is an accurate texture, based upon its in-game description.

Designation changed.

Okay... but don't change anything just to please me. I will accept your classifications, regardless.

I simply wanted to take the opportunity to plead my case, on both of those issues.

[Schu]

Oh dont get me wrong, I happen to agree with you. I'm not a prude by any means and I would most likely never have noticed it, if it wasn't brought to my attention way back when. I did add to the designation and added some comments to it as well as others for clarification.

Okay... but don't change anything just to please me. I will accept your classifications, regardless.

I simply wanted to take the opportunity to plead my case, on both of those issues.

I didn't change it to please you. I changed it because you gave a well thought out argument of why I should change it. If Wesp or at least one of his acolytes would come over here and do the same, I would possibly make changes to the other list about the UP. But no, they would rather sit over on the PV boards and cry, whine and moan about how I got it wrong, or send a sacrificial lamb (jerky) over here and not give him accurate information, or at least a thought out argument of why I need to change something.

If you were to check with my family, you would find that I am very head strong and stubborn, but I am willing to listen too a well thought out argument and may possibly change my mind.

[Tessera]

Alright well, we continue to disagree about the Jock Shot texture. I still refuse to accept that it's a "mod" simply because it has tits.

But I will concede to most of the rest of your list. The Voerman sisters, for example. That was originally Acrimonious' idea, way back in the 5.04AT days. I eventually decided to add his idea to the TPG, last year. And I agree that it adds to the immersion, by making the Voerman sisters seem a lot less like inanimate statues. But regardless of its benefits, it still has to be classified as an arbitrary change on our part... so yes, I guess we have to call it a mod added by the TPG.

Regarding the flamethrower in the Hallowbrook: in its original position, that item was partially clipping through nearby objects and as such, it was unnecessarily difficult to see. Acrimonious moved it in version 5.04AT, so as to remove the clipping problem and make it more accessible to the player. So I'm not sure how to classify this issue. I personally consider it to be a map repair. At the same time, I guess you could also call it a mod, because he moved it to a new location which is a fair distance away from its original location. This one is up for grabs.

Regarding the Data CD: you'll have to ask Acrimonious to defend that particular decision. I do recall that I agreed with his reasoning at the time, but that one is still his baby. So if he wants to address this issue, then that would be great.

I disagree that the Malk dialogue is a mod. That dialogue was completely missing from several scenes. It had to be written... so I wrote it, since the original authors of VTMB are not available. I did make sure to stick very close to the overall "Malk style" as established by the original Troika writing team. I happen to play Malks exclusively... so I have a very good sense of how they speak in various situations.

The dance nodes inside the Confession club HAD to be moved. Once I relocated the player's dance node (to avoid the rendering bug which happens when you stand on top of the sunken disco lights), the dance nodes for the NPC's were now in the wrong locations. In all of the clubs where we can dance, the NPC's are supposed to dance in a circle around the player, whenever we activate our own dance node. But once I had moved our dance node, the NPC dance nodes likewise had to be moved, so that they would once again dance in a circle around the player. There was no way around it. I should mention that Wesp likewise moved the player's dance node in his own "patch," but he didn't finish the job by moving the NPC dance nodes as well. In my case, I prefer not to do anything half-assed... so I did a complete overhaul of that section of the Confession map.


Anyway, my major beef is still with the Jock Shot fix. But I won't harp on it anymore. I have already said my piece. I guess it falls to each individual user to decide whether or not my reasoning about it was justified.

[Schu]

See, this is what I am have been talking about. Your last post gave me information, that I either didn't have or an issue that I had forgotten about or hadn't run into in the vanilla game.

Example: The flamethrower was moved to make it slightly easier to find. I didn't realize that it was virtually impossible to find, that makes it a fix.
Designation changed.

The data CD will stay as is until Acrimonious pops in. I can see it now: "What the fuck man, that was a legit fix" LOL

The missing Malkavian dialogue. Yup I forgot, that there was some missing dialogue that made it hard to figure out what was going on.
Designation changed.

The dance nodes in the Confession Club. That was my bad, I forgot to change it. Whoops

I'm still considering changing the Jock Shot designation, but I am also considering the ramifications of doing so due to subject matter and people accusing me of bias. And you have to admit, everything that the two of you put into the True Patch has adhered to the PG rating of the original game, except this one change.

[Arglaar]

That simply makes no sense at all, Schu. Gary's own description of that tape states that it was "pulled from the store shelves." Okay... why would K-Mart or whatever pull a video tape from their shelves..? Because of the content..? Nope, because K-Mart sells Playboy videos. Then what other reason is left..? The answer comes from Gary himself: "Two hard, pointy reasons."

That's a reference to stiff nipples, obviously. Gary is saying that the Jock Shot video was pulled from the shelves because it featured bare nipples on the cover. What other reason could there be..?

Stiff nipples don't necessarily mean that they were bare.

Perhaps they meant the cover was more akin to something like this random picture I found on google:

[Tessera]

Example: The flamethrower was moved to make it slightly easier to find. I didn't realize that it was virtually impossible to find, that makes it a fix.
Designation changed.

Well I happen to be VERY biased, since I am the author of the TPG. But I will still say that the flamethrower issue is up for grabs. It wasn't "nearly impossible" to see on the original map, it was just clipping and unnecessarily obscured. I guess it all comes down to how much you enjoy pixel hunting. I personally hate it. And there is nothing else in Bloodlines which requires pixel hunting in order to find it, so it didn't make sense to me that this one object would be so difficult to spot.

I'm still considering changing the Jock Shot designation, but I am also considering the ramifications of doing so due to subject matter and people accusing me of bias. And you have to admit, everything that the two of you put into the True Patch has adhered to the PG rating of the original game, except this one change.

Whoa... hold on there, Sparky. Why are you saying that VTMB is a PG-rated game..? Since when do PG movies feature naked women, drug use, graphic violence against nearly naked women (Chastity), rampant alcohol abuse (street bums), smoking, acts of perversion (Tzimisce, homosexual encounters, prostitutes), adult themes, and all of the other adult content..? You might find one or two of those things in a PG movie -- but not ALL of them. And lastly, the rating on the box clearly says "Mature: for players 17 and older." That's the equivalent of an "R" rating, dude.

You have already shown that you don't suffer from bias. Why else would we be arguing..? But I still maintain that in an "R" rated game that ALREADY had bare breasts in it, there is nothing "controversial" about adding a texture repair which completely conforms to the item's in-game description.

Sorry... I already said that I wouldn't harp on it. Ooops. But no way is Bloodlines a "PG" game. If I had kids, then I definitely would not let them play it.

Stiff nipples don't necessarily mean that they were bare.

Then why would that Jock Shot tape have been pulled from the store shelves..? Nobody cares about stiff nipples through a T-shirt. You can buy those "Girls Gone Wild" videos in a supermarket, fer chrissakes. I have actually seen those videos on sale in a local supermarket. But the Girls Gone Wild videos... whilst having very provocative covers... still have the nipples of the women covered.

So then, why was the Jock Shot video pulled from the store shelves..? The only logical answer is that it had nudity on the cover -- hence many stores decided to pull it, in order to avoid hassles from parents and prudes.

[Arglaar]

Example: The flamethrower was moved to make it slightly easier to find. I didn't realize that it was virtually impossible to find, that makes it a fix.
Designation changed.

Well I happen to be VERY biased, since I am the author of the TPG. But I will still say that the flamethrower issue is up for grabs. It wasn't "nearly impossible" to see on the original map, it was just clipping and unnecessarily obscured. I guess it all comes down to how much you enjoy pixel hunting. I personally hate it. And there is nothing else in Bloodlines which requires pixel hunting in order to find it, so it didn't make sense to me that this one object would be so difficult to spot.

I agree with this somewhat.  If the original model is clipping through an object or a wall, then moving so it is not is definitely a fix.  Moving it to a totally different location, however, borders on Mod.
It all depends on if the new location makes it much easier to find or not.  As the QA guy at my work likes to say, "Does it affect the form, fit, or function, of it?" hehe

Whoa... hold on there, Sparky. Why are you saying that VTMB is a PG-rated game..? Since when do PG movies feature naked women, drug use, graphic violence against nearly naked women (Chastity), rampant alcohol abuse (street bums), smoking, acts of perversion (Tzimisce, homosexual encounters, prostitutes), adult themes, and all of the other adult content..? You might find one or two of those things in a PG movie -- but not ALL of them. And lastly, the rating on the box clearly says "Mature: for players 17 and older." That's the equivalent of an "R" rating, dude.

You have already shown that you don't suffer from bias. Why else would we be arguing..? But I still maintain that in an "R" rated game that ALREADY had bare breasts in it, there is nothing "controversial" about adding a texture repair which completely conforms to the item's in-game description.

Sorry... I already said that I wouldn't harp on it. Ooops. But no way is Bloodlines a "PG" game. If I had kids, then I definitely would not let them play it.

Now, it's been a while since I've played this (Too long actually.. I need to get this installed on my Win 7 machine and go to town) but where/when are there bare breasts in the original game?

Then why would that Jock Shot tape have been pulled from the store shelves..? Nobody cares about stiff nipples through a T-shirt. You can buy those "Girls Gone Wild" videos in a supermarket, fer chrissakes. I have actually seen those videos on sale in a local supermarket. But the Girls Gone Wild videos... whilst having very provocative covers... still have the nipples of the women covered.

So then, why was the Jock Shot video pulled from the store shelves..? The only logical answer is that it had nudity on the cover -- hence many stores decided to pull it, in order to avoid hassles from parents and prudes.

Most likely it was accidental nudity.. Either the wet top was too sheer as in my pic above, or there was a nip slip somewhere that the editors of the box art didn't catch.

The Tape using the same texture as the Deathmask tape is definitely a bug.  Changing the texture constitutes a fix.  Your texture, while enjoyable, might be going a little too far into mod territory because of the picture that you chose.
Maybe find something that appears to be more of an accidental nudity type of scenario instead?


Now, I'm not trying to argue w/ you here... I'm just doing what I do best, and that's playing Devil's Advocate...

[Schu]

Whoa... hold on there, Sparky. Why are you saying that VTMB is a PG-rated game..? Since when do PG movies feature naked women, drug use, graphic violence against nearly naked women (Chastity), rampant alcohol abuse (street bums), smoking, acts of perversion (Tzimisce, homosexual encounters, prostitutes), adult themes, and all of the other adult content..? You might find one or two of those things in a PG movie -- but not ALL of them. And lastly, the rating on the box clearly says "Mature: for players 17 and older." That's the equivalent of an "R" rating, dude.

Hehehe, sorry for messing with ya Tess, but I just knew that comment would set you off    again I apologize, but I just couldn't resist (sometimes my dark and twisted sense of humor shows through).

You have already shown that you don't suffer from bias. Why else would we be arguing..? But I still maintain that in an "R" rated game that ALREADY had bare breasts in it, there is nothing "controversial" about adding a texture repair which completely conforms to the item's in-game description.

I dont consider our discussion arguing....you have been very respectful. You have, how ever posted legitimate concerns/arguments of why I should change something thats all. Then again I guess that could be considered arguing couldn't it  


EDIT: This is fun, also, more changes made to OP after careful consideration.

[Tessera]

where/when are there bare breasts in the original game?

Haven't you ever been inside Vesuvius..? Those chicks are wearing nothing except a g-string and a pair of high heels. The only part of their upper bodies which are covered are JUST their nipples... with tassels that were forced into the game by ActiVision after the models had already been constructed. Of this I am absolutely positive. But regardless, they are still bare-breasted. 95 percent of their breast is visible. And there's more to a breast than just her nipple, wouldn't you agree..? So I consider them to be topless.

Most likely it was accidental nudity.. Either the wet top was too sheer as in my pic above, or there was a nip slip somewhere that the editors of the box art didn't catch.

I think we are forgetting where this game takes place. We're in southern California... Los Angeles, to be exact. I lived there for 12 years, so I am intimately familiar with the place. And it so happens that SoCal is one of the most sexually permissive regions in all of the U.S.A. So if the stores in L.A. felt it necessary to pull the Jock Shot video from their shelves, then you can bet it wasn't because of a wet T-shirt. It would have been due to actual nudity on the cover.

And in any case, why would there be a wet T-shirt photo on the cover of a SWIMSUIT video..? If it's a swimsuit video, then it stands to reason that the girl on the cover would be wearing... oh, I dunno... a swimsuit, perhaps..?  

Hence my choice to feature a model who is wearing a topless bathing suit. It's actually a Rudy Gernreich bathing suit, which were very popular in Europe and Brazil at one time. They still are in Brazil, I believe.

Anyway, don't worry guys. I know you are playing Devil's Advocate and I'm not getting mad. I am just debating with you and defending my position.

[Acrimonious]

Fixed conditions in Tourette's dialogue - this makes it "harder" to reconcile Therese and Jeanette   (FIX)
Technically a fix, but it did make it harder to reconcile the sisters, others may consider this a mod

Are there still people bitching about this one?  There were conditions in the dialogue that were basically being ignored due to what I assume is a bug in the game's text parser.  I simply stated those conditions in a different way so that they would be read and evaluated correctly.  Yes, reconciling the sisters is more difficult, but that's how it should be.  The dialogue now works exactly as it was clearly intended to.  I know you classified it as a fix, I just wanted to explain things again for the others who "may consider this a mod."

Hid Bertrum's CD from non Nosferatu/HOLLYWOOD                        (MOD)(FIX)
Technically a fix, even thou there is dialogue for some clans other than Nosferatu

It's been a long time, so I may not remember this one correctly.  I believe I changed it because of something I noticed while playing as a Nosferatu (something not many other people do, apparently).  If you are a Nosferatu, and you've been to the Hollywood sewers and met Gary, then you receive an email from Bertram explicitly telling you come see him for some work.  When you go talk to him, he gives you the quest to find the CD.  Since the email is only sent to Nosferatu players, it seemed reasonable to assume the quest itself was meant to be exclusive to the Nosferatu.  The easiest fix was to hide the CD from the other clans.

[Tessera]

THAT was it. You added that Data CD code to 5.04AT almost four years ago... and I couldn't remember the details.

And yes, it makes very good sense. The alternative would have been to change things so that ALL of the player clans get Bertram's e-mail. But that would make much less sense, because his e-mail appears to have been directed solely to the Nosferatu.

Also... aren't there a couple of quests that the Nossies are prevented from doing..? Because of their unique... shall we say... features..? Because if that is true, then it makes even more sense to have a Nosferatu-only quest in the game, as compensation for their inability to complete certain other quests. They gotta get their all of their points somehow, no..?

[Acrimonious]

Also... aren't there a couple of quests that the Nossies are prevented from doing..? Because of their unique... shall we say... features..?

That sounds right, but I don't want to give a definite yes answer because I honestly don't remember for sure now.

[Schu]

Are there still people bitching about this one? 

Yup still are, I'll alter my comment to clarify it a bit.

It's been a long time, so I may not remember this one correctly.  I believe I changed it because of something I noticed while playing as a Nosferatu (something not many other people do, apparently).  If you are a Nosferatu, and you've been to the Hollywood sewers and met Gary, then you receive an email from Bertram explicitly telling you come see him for some work.  When you go talk to him, he gives you the quest to find the CD.  Since the email is only sent to Nosferatu players, it seemed reasonable to assume the quest itself was meant to be exclusive to the Nosferatu.  The easiest fix was to hide the CD from the other clans.

Thanks for the information, I'll alter my comment and designation changed.

I wish we could get this kind of cooperation from the UP users.

[Tessera]

I wish we could get this kind of cooperation from the UP users.

You never will.

They have a lot to hide. So does Wesp.

We don't.