Games success: what weights more?

[anariel]

So I have a question: what do each of you think is the most single important part of a game, to make it either a success, or to have a life expentancy greater than two years (leaving aside multiplayer)? And why? And add some examples, too XD.

Since I started the topic, I'll say mine first:

I think the most important part of any game is its moddability. Mods caan give new life to an old product, introduce endless variations and, more important, allow the consumer to see it as a great deal even after a few months after the game has been launched (since you can get more content for free, and it's extra content you can ignore or install at your whim). Some mods can change a game so completely, the game can turn into something entirely new.

As examples, I'll mention the first Neverwinter Nights, a game that not only was easy to mod, but also had an easy to access map generator. My second example would be Oblivion, with some mods so big they remake the gaem completely. And my final example woould be Minecraft, a game with a lot of mods, not even out of Beta, and with some combinations that change the game from "sandbox game about gathering resources and crafting stuff" to "play Civilization from a worker's PoV".

[beetle]

I agree with modability. But I think a well written story goes a long way to making a game successful as well.

[Will Never]

So I have a question: what do each of you think is the most single important part of a game, to make it either a success, or to have a life expentancy greater than two years (leaving aside multiplayer)? And why? And add some examples, too XD.

Since I started the topic, I'll say mine first:

I think the most important part of any game is its moddability. Mods caan give new life to an old product, introduce endless variations and, more important, allow the consumer to see it as a great deal even after a few months after the game has been launched (since you can get more content for free, and it's extra content you can ignore or install at your whim). Some mods can change a game so completely, the game can turn into something entirely new.

As examples, I'll mention the first Neverwinter Nights, a game that not only was easy to mod, but also had an easy to access map generator. My second example would be Oblivion, with some mods so big they remake the gaem completely. And my final example woould be Minecraft, a game with a lot of mods, not even out of Beta, and with some combinations that change the game from "sandbox game about gathering resources and crafting stuff" to "play Civilization from a worker's PoV".

I don't think moddability is crucial to a game's quality.  There are some excellent games that aren't heavily modded, and that's because the game  stands alone well enough that modding it any way would just detract from its quality.  Unless the game is designed specifically for modding, then modding have a lot of bearing on its quality.

Games are made good by different strengths, usually.  This question might be narrowed down to what qualities are important for a specific genre, because what makes an RTS game, turn based game, shooter game, or RPG good are quite different. 

[Tessera]

There are some excellent games that aren't heavily modded

Such as..?

[Will Never]

Diablo and Diablo 2.   

[Tessera]

There are numerous mods available for both of those games. But be that as it may...

The reason I asked you to clarify is because it -sounded- as though you were saying that there are "some excellent games" which would NOT be improved by mods. You did say that mod-ability is not very important... which implies that in some cases, you feel that a given game title would be better WITHOUT any mods.

I was asking you to name a few such games which would NOT be improved if they were modded.

[Will Never]

What I mean to say is that I think some games don't benefit much from modding and some benefit greatly.  For that reason, I think its importance applies strongly for some games and almost not at all for others.

Some games that benefit greatly are Elder Scrolls, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age, Half Life.

Some games that don't benefit as much are adventure games like Diablo 2 and strategy games like Homeworld, Civilization, and Alpha Centauri.

In contrast to games like Morrowind and Oblivion, Diablo and Diablo 2 weren't "made famous" because of excellent mods.  The games had very low "mod-ability" (most mods were just hacks designed for cheating anyway) yet they were good games whose mainline gameplay was well-done enough that people don't feel very compelled to jump into playing mods of them, usually.

[g2d1]

My 2 cents on a great game format.

1.  Great Story

     1.1 Star Wars the Sith Lords, and Knights of the Old Republic, Bio-Shock (not real dialogue exchange, but rather a one sided conversation) Jade Empire, and of course Never Winter Nights

2.  Dialogue mix of the examples below.

     2.1 Humor and Banter:  Bad Company, Halo, Never Winter Nights
     2.2 Seriousness:  Gears of war, Mass Effect,

3.  Combat

     3.1  I think Jade Empire had one of the best combat engines mixing martial arts with weapon use.  Gears of war combat physics, the weapon variety of Borderlands
     3.2  Co-ops and versus

4.  Character creating sheets and character progression of abilities

5.  Adult themes and suggestive language

     5.1 Very few games meet this criteria. VTMB of course, Mass Effect has some hot babes, and of course the original Tomb Raider featured Laura Croft with big knockers and a tight rear end

6. Scariness:  I have to say that Bio-Shock, Crimson Butterfly, The first Left for Dead, some of the Silent Hill games,

7. Lenght of game:  Sometimes games are too short

[Tessera]

Well, I am of the opinion that EVERY game benefits from mod-ability.

Everyone likes to be able to customize things to their own liking. Whether it be a game,
or their car stereo, or their living room drapes, or whatever. If you deliberately take that
ability to customize things away, then most people tend to resent it.

Being a modder myself, I suppose that I could be accused of showing a biased opinion.

But I don't think it's simply "modder's bias" showing here. I feel that most gamers would agree with me.

5.  Adult themes and suggestive language

     5.1 Very few games meet this criteria. VTMB of course, Mass Effect has some hot babes, and of course the original Tomb Raider featured Laura Croft with big knockers and a tight rear end

Hot babes and nudity are nice, but by themselves I do not feel that they can be considered "adult content."
Nudity is just humans in their natural state and so far as I am concerned, it is totally appropriate for kids.

When I think of adult content, I think of a lack of censorship across the board... not just with sex. So when
we look at it that way, VTMB and maybe one or two other -major- titles are the only adult games that I
can think of to have been released within the past ten years. Everything else is kids' stuff in comparison.

[Steeal]

Where adult content is concerned every game needs sex and bad guys who paint the walls with red goo when they die.

[Cylnar]

Some games that don't benefit as much are adventure games like Diablo 2 and strategy games like Homeworld, Civilization, and Alpha Centauri.

I long ago quit playing vanilla Civ IV in favor of playing heavily modded versions of it. I haven't played for a few months, but I was playing the Fall from Heaven series and its modmods (which turn Civ into a dark-fantasy game with much more depth than the original). I also played some Planetfall, which is basically a hybrid of Civ IV and Alpha Centauri. So I agree with Tessera that mods extend the life of ANY game. Yes, some games are more mod-friendly than others but why should that stop anybody?

Some examples: There are tons of mods out for the Baldur's Gate games and other Infinity Engine titles - which were not remotely designed with modding in mind. The Infinity Engine had to be completely decompiled and reverse-engineered by coders to create a database and pseudo-SDK that could be used by patient and skilled modders to enhance the game. An example on the other end of the scale are games like Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion - which were released with highly user-friendly mod tools, to the extent where the devs got a bit lazy on the actual single-player campaigns.

We shouldn't buy games in the expectation that only the modding community will make our purchase worthwhile - but neither should a game be meant to be a "pristine" experience that should never be sullied by the hoi polloi and their lowly mods. If you don't think a particular mod adds to your gaming experience, don't use that mod. Simple.

[Tessera]

If you don't think a particular mod adds to your gaming experience, don't use that mod. Simple.

But the -option- should always be there.

[Ratcatcher]

# Sure, a great story would helps me be interested in the game in the first place, but most times you don't know the story until you've finished the game.
# Dialogue for unimportant stuff like merchant can be carbon copies for all i care. But important people you meet should have depth.
# Combat is good, but not constant all out combat, once in a while is fine but gimme something else to do.
# Character sheets and character progression of abilities are a plus depending on the genre, but i can live without.
# Adult themes and suggestive language is another plus, but there are so few game that do it right that its not really worth looking.
# I don't mind a good scare, when its appropriate and not just because we've got nothing else to put there.
# The Length of a game has to be right, don't draw out stuff just so you can say theres XX hours of gameplay.
# A relatively competent AI or one that is programmed to give you fits, in a good way.
# Surprising twists, gimme, gimme, gimme, then gimme some more.
# Replayability. If i do something different it change the game completely.
# Mod-ability is up there, mainly because most time you'll have mods that fix bugs ages before a patch comes out.

So what the hell do i want?
Immersion.
A game that draws me in and doesn't let me go.
A game i have to force myself to stop.
A game that can surprise me, make me laugh and just as soon scare the shit out of me.
A game that actually make me care, for good or ill, about the characters i meet.

But i find some parts here and there and i have to be happy with that.

Heres a few example.

AI = Maniac from the original Wing Commander Kilrathi Saga. The guy was described as a loose cannon and was one in missions, he could kill you just as fast as help you.
Dialogue = Bits of SW KotOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age party banter.
Twists = Any game that make you care for a main character and kill it off. Wing Commander, Final Fantasy 7.
Scare = The Suffering, Jericho, parts of Doom and Dead Space.
Mod-ability = The Elder Scrolls comes to mind.
Adult theme = Hmm, lets see, Bloodlines and... that pretty much it.
Replayability = Master of Orion, Civilization, Colonization.
etc.

My perfect game has never been done and i doubt it'll ever be done.

[anariel]

Some games that don't benefit as much are adventure games like Diablo 2 and strategy games like Homeworld, Civilization, and Alpha Centauri.

Civi IV comes with two mods (space game and future war with mechas and arcologies...), Alpha Centauri I don't know, I never looked for it. Homeworld... Well, it sure helped the saga when mods like "Star Wars" or "Galactica" drawed in more players...

Games that won't really win much from mods could be old graphical adventures, like Day of the Tentacle, MonKey Island, Indiana Jones... And a little more recent, Syberia or The Longest Journey.

Anyway, I asked for one characteristic per poster, the tricky part here is to choose the most important to oneself. Of course, I cheated by telling "moddability", because with it in hand you can mod a game to improve inmersion, storyline, etc... (or ruin the game, obvious refence to we-all-know-who XD).

[Tarbos]

Games that won't really win much from mods could be old graphical adventures, like Day of the Tentacle, MonKey Island, Indiana Jones... And a little more recent, Syberia or The Longest Journey.

This.

For me, most important is good story and ideas. Bad story = boring and repetitive game game I'll never play. Thats why I played Half Life, but never liked Counterstrike.

[exx]

If you completely take modding out of the equation (think stock car off the lot vs. tricked out drag racer), then my thoughts are as follows, with regard mainly to FPS and RPG games:

(1) Environment - If a game contains an environment that makes me forget I'm sitting at my desk, causes me to stop at the edge of a cliff simply to admire the view, makes me jump when I hear a thump out of the back left speaker, and forces me to slowly sneak through the shadows with a dry mouth for fear of getting shot, then that's a game that's got it's formula right.  I play games to escape.

(2) Controls - I am strictly a PC gamer, and when I play a title that's released for the PC, I expect my characters to do whatever the hell I want them to do when I press whatever the hell button I feel like pressing to make that action occur.  I have eight buttons on my mouse and I want them all to be bindable without needing a hack.  Case in point:  a console gamer friend of mine got me Resident Evil 4 for my birthday because he knew it would be a game I would thoroughly enjoy playing.  Quickly realized that even with Uberoptions installed, playing with a mouse was impossible barring the use of some shifty hacks.  I even went so far as to get a gamepad only to find that I could only slowly aim my gun upwards, downwards, left or right and nothing in between.  Piece of shit port made by lazy programmers.  Sold the game shortly thereafter.

(3) Dialogue - Boring, uninspiring character acting make an otherwise great game turn into drudgery every time someone opens his mouth.  Engaging dialogue and scripting is one of the reasons why VTMB (Smiling Jack in particular) and DA:O are such fantastic games.  Great characters are memorable long after a game has been played.

(4) Story - Oftentimes, good game play is killed by a story line that's either too simple and linear or far too complex to follow with any real interest.  In the middle lies a well-developed game with an interesting main story that also includes a bounty of subquests that keep the action fresh and give a sense of non-linear play.  Oblivion did this well.

(5) A.I. - There aren't many games out there that have done a very good job of making the enemies think for themselves and stay alive instead acting like a whack-a-mole popping up from behind a barrel.  Fallout 3 is one game that I've recently played that did a fairly good job of having enemies use cover and even change to a more favorable position while the player is ducked or reloading.

(6) Combat system, weapons, character creation and advancement, and other things all tie here at #6.  Every good game has its own set of tricks to make it stand out, so these really can't be pitted against one another on a level playing field.