TPG vs. UP: List Of Mods/Changes Added To VTMB Patches

[Prisoner416]

I was just over at the Steam forums looking around and found this little gem. I know its not exactly
related to the list, but it is related to the discussion. You guys are going to love this one.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2277581

I just love that he put a guard in the Skyline Apartments. I mean really? There is illegal activity going
on in there, like a manager who has his own little peep-show going on, plus a vampire living there,
LOL, how stupid can you get?

Have you seen the latest change he made with Gimble?

[Cylnar]

Do tell...

Which you should have done in your last post, this not being a chat room and all.

[Prisoner416]

v7.9 22.11.2011
----

+Added option to send Gimble to Vandal and a museum panel inspection.

[Tessera]

...

LOL... whatever.

Wesp is no longer of any importance.

[Prisoner416]

Sadly he is, as people keep claiming his patch restores "missing" content.

I love cutting room floor content as much as anyone, and often love mods that add deleted or removed material back into games, but damn it, call the mod what it is.

[perez007usa]

That is one of the main reasons, it's on the cutting room floor. It take's away the story line, that it plays. Wesp can kiss my dare-re-air. For that matter he must of kissed a lot of butts, to get his way on the web.

[Tessera]

Sadly he is, as people keep claiming his patch restores "missing" content.

Who cares..? He's a hack and a liar. Always has been. 

My point was that Wesp is unimportant to TPG users. We're playing the real game.
So I don't see why we should care what Wesp and his childish groupies are playing.

[Prisoner416]

The user known as Smear over on the Steam forums is living up to his name.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2517265&page=2

Figured I'd add the link in case anyone else wants to add their thoughts.

[Tessera]

What thoughts are we supposed to have..? That a few childish nitwits are lying their asses off over on Steam's kiddie forums..?

Everyone who uses the TPG knows that those people are completely full of shit... so again I ask: who cares..?

[Prisoner416]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisoner416  
So... you don't think allowing access to certain weapons earlier then intended and inserting more methods to gain experience and cash are "game-changing"?


FrostyTheUnbald- "No, my highly creative friend, I don't because no game choices have been removed. Choices and the exciting dilemmas involved in making those choices rule this game.

Some mornings I put my left leg in my pants first and some mornings I put my right leg in my pants first and some mornings I have extra choices of pants because the laundry is done. The result is always the same. I go out into the public with my pants on and think nothing of it.

Now if some mornings I am feeling frisky and I choose to go without pants... well then that is my choice isn't it and you can bet that I had fun considering that choice. But, now, if someone removes my pants, well, then they remove my choice and the delicious momentary consideration that went with the choosing.

So, you have to consider whether the players pants have been removed or not."


WHAT. THE. FUCK.

I can't even figure out what he's saying. I want whatever he is smoking, however.

[Tessera]

He's trying to say that the more choices we have -- the better.

Which is, of course, idiotic. I'd like the choice of having a machine gun in Act One. Or maybe even a thermonuclear weapon. Would that be okay, too..?

A vitally important mechanic in ANY good PC game is GAME BALANCE. If the game is unbalanced at any point, then the player will be either overpowered or underpowered. This in turn decreases the playability and the overall enjoyment of the game in question. Which ultimately can cause the player to become soured, regarding the entire game in general.

What this nitwit is ultimately saying, then, is that it is a good thing to be able to have choices which undermine and sabotage VTMB's game balance.

Hence, he is actually saying that he approves of anything which allows Wesp to ruin the re-playability of Bloodlines. Which is precisely what Wesp has accomplished.

But you see, this is what I have been trying to say about these people: they don't care about logic. They don't care if what they are saying is irrational. They only care about belonging to a clique. A clique which, I should point out, is primarily dominated by adolescents... not adults. And if the only way that they can defend that clique is by lying their asses off, wallowing in double-talk and making irrational statements, then they don't care.

Which brings us back to what I said earlier: these people are unimportant. We have already proven beyond all doubt that Wesp has ultimately ruined Bloodlines. We have also pointed out that Wesp has effectively managed to undermine the Bloodlines modding community -- which explains why there are almost no good mods available for VTMB whatsoever.

If all of that butchery is what "FrostyTheUnbald" is defending, then clearly the dude has a major screw loose. And crazy people are not worth caring about. Not in this situation.

On our side, we have the TPG. It's the best VTMB patch on the web. It is in fact the ONLY legitimate VTMB patch on the web... because what Wesp has produced is not a patch -- it's a confused and bloated mod. So now that I have (once again) reminded everyone of these facts, I don't think we need to pay any more attention to PlanetVampire, or Steam, or any other community which is dominated by childish and unloved little celibates, who need crutches in order to play Bloodlines.

We're playing the real game -- and they're not. That's all that really matters here. Nothing beyond that is of any importance anymore. Not to me, anyway.  

[kurtis64]

He dont restore missing content, he restore DELETED content. If Troika wanted to restore this material, they would have done by any patch or they has gone on record about it.
I'm tired of saying, the product that Wesp restores DONT REPRESENT THE FINAL VERSION OF THE GAME.
Is REJECTED content. Bloodlines isn't like KOTOR II,  there isn't any rough draft that justify the existence of content pending to use in the game.

For that matter he must of kissed a lot of butts, to get his way on the web.

I think that rather are the others that going to kiss her butt to it.

[Schu]

If Troika wanted to restore this material, they would have done by any patch or they has gone on record about it.

This is not an entirely accurate statement. We all know that Troika wanted “some” of the removed content that was left on
the disks to be in the game, but it was removed either due to time restraints, it was broken, or Activision didn't like it. Also
Troika having to close their doors a few months after release didn't help, so there is no record of what they wanted.

Some examples are: The blow-job scenes were removed because Activision didn't like them. The cage dancers in
Confession were broken (caused the game to crash, plus clipping issues) and Activision didn't give Troika the time needed
to fix them. We know that Troika wanted the cage dancers in the game, because of the E3 content and the notes left in the
scripting. There are other things on the disks that Troika possibly intended to be in the game, but couldn't get them in for
whatever reason (most likely time). That does not excuse the adding of that material to an unofficial patch, unless you are
one of the former dev team.

The library is a good example of that, there is a bit of material on the disks that may have something to do with the library,
but there is no information or reliable feed back from the former dev team about why it is there and what they were intending.
Wesp should leave it alone and let the modding community play with it, or at the very least create a separate mod, not just
add it to his so called patch, plus or other wise.

In general, I do agree with your comment. Wesp has taken anything that was on the disks and put it into the game without
thinking about how it will ruin the depth and continuity of Bloodlines. Anyone willing to crack open the files in Bloodlines
will see that Troika was rushed to get it out the door. I mean come-on, the E3 demo and content was still on their computers
when Troika sent in the final draft to be burned to disk, which is why that information is on the disks. That's not normal.

Though I am surprised that Wesp hasn't added the E3 demo to his mess yet...he's added everything else.

[perez007usa]

Though I am surprised that Wesp hasn't added the E3 demo to his mess yet...he's added everything else.

 Please, don't give him any ideas.

[Tessera]

This is a lengthy reply... but please bear with me and read it. I am trying to make a solid point here...

Has anyone else noticed that Wesp seems to be rather prudish and childish, so far as what he "restores..?"

And yes, I am placing that word "restores" within quotation marks, because most of Wesp's so-called "restored content" is actually garbage that was deliberately tossed onto the cutting room floor by Troika.

But I wanted to make a point here. Schu mentioned the "blowjob scenes" which were cut from the game. I will assume that he is referring to the oral sex sequences which were supposed to take place within several of the outdoor "hub" maps. Those scenes still exist within the map code -- they were simply disabled in the 11th hour, and no doubt under protest, by changing one or two lines of code and thus disabling the blowjob sequences. And also, there were only two (out of three) outdoor "blowjob scenes" which Troika disabled: a recurring sequence which takes place in Santa Monica, and another "one-shot" sequence which takes place right outside the Confession Club in Downtown.

A third blowjob scene, which takes place in Chinatown, was left functioning in the retail release of VTMB... probably because ActiVision didn't know about it. That's just an educated guess... but it's clear that Troika wanted to include a fair amount of sexual content, which was later censored by ActiVision. But the fact that this third blowjob scene is still functioning in the retail release indicates... to me at least... that Troika did indeed want ALL of those sequences to be included within the game. The sequences which were disabled were no doubt ORDERED to be disabled by ActiVision. But the third sequence, which is far more obscure and well-hidden, was not disabled. Why..? Just use your heads: it's because ActiVision didn't know about it -- that's why.

In my VTMB Mega-Mod, those two missing BJ scenes have been restored/reactivated. That's what mods are for.  

But let's get back to Fuhrer Wesp and his over-zealous efforts to "restore" everything that he can get his hands on. The existing map code makes it quite clear that several sexually explicit sequences were forcibly disabled in Bloodlines. Aside from the BJ scenes that I previously mentioned, there is also a rather large block of disabled map scripting within the code for the Vesuvius map. That map code was very clearly intended to set up AI scripted sequences, in which the Vesuvius girls perform oral sex upon the male patrons from time to time. That map code for Vesuvius is still there... it has simply had one or two of the triggers disabled. Not removed... not missing... just disabled after the fact.

There is also a group of pathing nodes which lead in and out of the men's room inside Vesuvius... no doubt so that the male patrons could duck in there with one of the dancers and pay for a "quickie."  

The content that I am referring to isn't just some vague cutting-room floor garbage. Nor is it anything which interferes with game balance, nor is it anything else of that nature. This is clearly X-rated content that Troika originally intended to be a part of the Bloodlines experience. But their publisher... ActiVision... forced them to disable that X-rated content. Just like they forced Troika to add tassels to the topless dancers inside Vesuvius. Those dancers originally had nothing covering their bare nipples. Nothing at all. And yes, I am completely certain about this. Reverse-engineering of models and textures happens to be what I do best.

And I am equally certain about the disabled map code. Just so no one thinks that I am making this stuff up, let me show you a sample of Troika's map code for Santa Monica. The following block of code WOULD have introduced a sequenced event in Santa Monica, in which a hooker is approached by a "john," who she then follows into a secluded alley. And then, she kneels down and gives him a blowjob:

{
"classname" "intersting_place"
"angles" "0 194 0"
"type" "Idle"
"min_bounds" "-16 -16 0"
"max_bounds" "16  16 72"
"min_time" "20"
"max_time" "20"
"max_npcs" "1"
"match_orientation" "1"
"group_id" "2"
"testflags" "4"
"enabled" "0"
"targetname" "talk_to_hooker_spot"
"rating" "3"
"OnNPCArrived" "hooker_wait,Disable,,0,-1,,"
"OnNPCArrived" "hooker_relay,Enable,,0,-1,,"
"OnNPCLeft" "hooker_relay,Trigger,,0,-1,,"
"origin" "-1091.15 -1921.1 -105.154"
}
{
"classname" "aiscripted_sequence"
"targetname" "hooker_to_alley"
"m_iszEntity" "hooker"
"m_flRadius" "64"
"m_flRepeat" "0"
"m_fMoveTo" "0"
"m_iszNextScript" "hooker_in_alley"
"m_iFinishSchedule" "0"
"origin" "-1126.07 -1897.62 -103"
}
{
"classname" "scripted_sequence"
"targetname" "hooker_in_alley"
"m_iszEntity" "hooker"
"m_flRadius" "512"
"m_flRepeat" "0"
"m_fMoveTo" "1"
"angles" "0 0 0"
"m_iszIdle" "praying_begin"
"m_iszPlay" "praying_idle"
"m_iszPostIdle" "praying_idle"
"m_iszNextScript" "hooker_workin"
"OnBeginSequence" "hooker_timer,Enable,,0,-1,,"
"OnBeginSequence" "hooker_disturb_trigger,Enable,,0,-1,,"
"origin" "-904.486 -863.305 -111.665"
}
{
"classname" "aiscripted_sequence"
"targetname" "hooker_client_to_alley"
"m_iszEntity" "pedestrian_male"
"m_flRadius" "64"
"m_flRepeat" "0"
"m_fMoveTo" "0"
"m_iszNextScript" "hooker_client_in_alley"
"m_iFinishSchedule" "0"
"origin" "-1093.02 -1891.8 -103"
}
{
"classname" "scripted_sequence"
"angles" "0 181 0"
"targetname" "hooker_client_in_alley"
"m_iszEntity" "pedestrian_male"
"m_flRadius" "512"
"m_flRepeat" "0"
"m_fMoveTo" "1"
"m_iszPlay" "mesmerized"
"m_iszNextScript" "hooker_client_fun"
"origin" "-834.009 -863.424 -111.665"
}
{
"classname" "scripted_sequence"
"targetname" "hooker_workin"
"m_iszEntity" "hooker"
"m_flRadius" "512"
"m_flRepeat" "1000"
"m_fMoveTo" "0"
"angles" "0 0 0"
"m_iszIdle" "praying_idle"
"m_iszPlay" "praying_idle"
"m_iszPostIdle" "praying_idle"
"m_iszNextScript" "hooker_workin"
"spawnflags" "132"
"origin" "-904.439 -865.904 -111.665"
}
{
"classname" "scripted_sequence"
"angles" "0 181 0"
"targetname" "hooker_client_fun"
"m_iszEntity" "pedestrian_male"
"m_flRadius" "512"
"m_flRepeat" "1000"
"m_fMoveTo" "0"
"m_iszPlay" "mesmerized"
"m_iszIdle" "mesmerized"
"m_iszPostIdle" "mesmerized"
"spawnflags" "4"
"m_iszNextScript" "hooker_client_fun"
"origin" "-836.7 -863.48 -111.665"
}
{
"classname" "logic_relay"
"targetname" "hooker_relay"
"StartHidden" "1"
"StartDisabled" "1"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_client_to_alley,BeginSequence,,0,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_to_alley,BeginSequence,,0,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_talk_spot,Disable,,2,-1,,"
"origin" "-981.056 -1918.22 -103"
}
{
"classname" "logic_timer"
"targetname" "hooker_timer"
"StartHidden" "0"
"StartDisabled" "1"
"UseRandomTime" "0"
"RefireTime" "180"
"spawnflags" "0"
"OnTimer" "hooker_done_relay,Trigger,,0,-1,,"
"origin" "-1055.99 -867.48 -103"
}
{
"classname" "logic_relay"
"targetname" "hooker_done_relay"
"StartHidden" "0"
"StartDisabled" "0"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_timer,Disable,,0,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_client_fun,CancelSequence,,0,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_workin,CancelSequence,,0,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_done,BeginSequence,,0.01,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "client_done,BeginSequence,,0.01,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_wait,Enable,,0,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_talk_spot,Enable,,0,-1,,"
"OnTrigger" "hooker_disturb_trigger,Disable,,0,-1,,"
"origin" "-1063.94 -846.658 -103"
}
{
"classname" "scripted_sequence"
"targetname" "hooker_done"
"m_iszEntity" "hooker"
"m_flRadius" "512"
"m_flRepeat" "0"
"m_fMoveTo" "0"
"angles" "0 0 0"
"m_iszIdle" "praying_idle"
"m_iszPlay" "vomit_getout"
"m_iszNextScript" "hooker_adjust"
"origin" "-902.997 -859.303 -111.665"
}
{
"classname" "scripted_sequence"
"targetname" "hooker_adjust"
"m_iszEntity" "hooker"
"m_flRadius" "512"
"m_flRepeat" "1000"
"m_fMoveTo" "1"
"angles" "0 90 0"
"m_iszPlay" "uzi_fidget"
"spawnflags" "4"
"m_iszNextScript" "hooker_adjust"
"OnBeginSequence" "hooker_adjust_timer,Enable,,0,-1,,"
"origin" "-904.463 -843.114 -111.665"
}
{
"classname" "logic_timer"
"targetname" "hooker_adjust_timer"
"StartHidden" "0"
"StartDisabled" "1"
"UseRandomTime" "0"
"RefireTime" "60"
"spawnflags" "0"
"OnTimer" "hooker_adjust_timer,Disable,,0,-1,,"
"OnTimer" "hooker_adjust,CancelSequence,,0,-1,,"
"origin" "-1040.98 -864.875 -103"
}
{
"classname" "scripted_sequence"
"angles" "0 181 0"
"targetname" "client_done"
"m_iszEntity" "pedestrian_male"
"m_flRadius" "512"
"m_flRepeat" "0"
"m_fMoveTo" "0"
"m_iszPlay" "stunned_recover"
"m_iszIdle" "mesmerized"
"origin" "-838.176 -865.105 -111.665"
}

I realize that most of you will have no idea what any of that stuff means. But rest assured that -I- know what it means. It's a forcibly disabled block of map code, which would have allowed the hookers on the streets of Santa Monica to be approached by male pedestrians -- after which they would follow the "john" into an alley and suck his cock. And after they were finished, the hooker would return to her place of origin and then reset... after a certain time interval. This is an extensive code block. It is not just some small, random bit of unfinished nonsense. It is clearly something which was intended to be a part of the overall "flavor" of the Santa Monica hub.

And it is... quite clearly... an example of sexually-oriented adult content, which was later censored from the game. Censored by whom..? By Troika..? Not bloody likely, given their history and their oft-stated attitudes regarding sexual content within video games. No, it was quite obviously ActiVision who forced Troika to censor the more overtly sexual content in Bloodlines.

So here is my question: if Wesp is so gung-ho about "restoring missing content," then why hasn't he re-enabled any of the sexual content in Bloodlines..? Why hasn't he fixed the BJ scenes in Santa Monica and Downtown..? Why hasn't he re-enabled the oral sex scenes inside Vesuvius..? Why hasn't he removed the tassels from the topless dancers..? Troika clearly wanted that content to be there... so then, why hasn't Wesp "restored" it..? I haven't even seen him MENTION it... let alone make any efforts to get it working again.

Is it because Wesp is a prude..? Is he afraid to "restore" anything that involves sex..? Is he afraid that the virginal teenaged PV pee-wees will call him a "furry" if he does..? He has no problem "restoring" a bunch of deliberately removed crappola that messes up the game... but he won't restore sexual content that actually ENHANCES the game..? Content which CLEARLY was originally intended to be a part of Bloodlines..?

To me, this is more proof that Wesp is not using his head when he "restores" things to Bloodlines. No, he is simply doing whatever the adolescent pee-wees at PlanetVampire tell him to do... and without any regard whatsoever as to whether or not his "restorations" have any merit. Wesp is more than happy to let you have lots of extra weapons and money... but he won't even discuss the sexual content which was forcibly censored by ActiVision..?

Why not..? What is Wesp afraid of..?

I rest my case. Wesp is an idiot, who caters to tiny-minded children in an effort to be popular. And that is why I say that Wesp is unimportant -- especially to the ADULTS who play this game.

So if you are a child, then install Wesp's horrible "patch." It was tailor-made for you, by a bunch of other children. You'll love it. Here's a cookie.

But if you are an adult who resents anything being dumbed-down in your world, then fortunately you have a more sophisticated alternative: the TPG patch. Case closed.

 

[kurtis64]

If Troika wanted to restore this material, they would have done by any patch or they has gone on record about it.

This is not an entirely accurate statement. We all know that Troika wanted “some” of the removed content that was left on
the disks to be in the game, but it was removed either due to time restraints, it was broken, or Activision didn't like it. Also
Troika having to close their doors a few months after release didn't help, so there is no record of what they wanted.

Some examples are: The blow-job scenes were removed because Activision didn't like them. The cage dancers in
Confession were broken (caused the game to crash, plus clipping issues) and Activision didn't give Troika the time needed
to fix them. We know that Troika wanted the cage dancers in the game, because of the E3 content and the notes left in the
scripting. There are other things on the disks that Troika possibly intended to be in the game, but couldn't get them in for
whatever reason (most likely time). That does not excuse the adding of that material to an unofficial patch, unless you are
one of the former dev team.

The library is a good example of that, there is a bit of material on the disks that may have something to do with the library,
but there is no information or reliable feed back from the former dev team about why it is there and what they were intending.
Wesp should leave it alone and let the modding community play with it, or at the very least create a separate mod, not just
add it to his so called patch, plus or other wise.

In general, I do agree with your comment. Wesp has taken anything that was on the disks and put it into the game without
thinking about how it will ruin the depth and continuity of Bloodlines. Anyone willing to crack open the files in Bloodlines
will see that Troika was rushed to get it out the door. I mean come-on, the E3 demo and content was still on their computers
when Troika sent in the final draft to be burned to disk, which is why that information is on the disks. That's not normal.

Though I am surprised that Wesp hasn't added the E3 demo to his mess yet...he's added everything else.

Yeah, but that isn't my point. One thing is fix something that clearly fails and cause various problems and bugs and  another is recover waste material that cleary was removed intentionally.
Worse still: play to be god and decide that dialogues should be changed or not, when should the player gain or lose humanity, etc, as if you knew that's what the game needs more than the Troika itself.

To me, this is more proof that Wesp is not using his head when he "restores" things to Bloodlines. No, he is simply doing whatever the adolescent pee-wees at PlanetVampire tell him to do... and without any regard whatsoever as to whether or not his "restorations" have any merit.

That is why I have said many times that Wesp not limited to bug fixes, he attend to any suggestion that people do, no matter as stupid or mad is.
So that is the UP, with a lot of content and changes plucked that out of thin air.

[Schu]

Yeah, but that isn't my point. One thing is fix something that clearly fails and cause various problems and bugs and  another is recover waste material that cleary was removed intentionally.

Oh yeah I agree with ya on that, That was why I added the in general comment.

Worse still: play to be god and decide that dialogues should be changed or not, when should the player gain or lose humanity, etc, as if you knew that's what the game needs more than the Troika itself.

Definitely, that’s one of the things that aggravates me most about his mess of a mod. He has been messin around with the
dialogues for years, then he figured out how to change the humanity bonuses and penalty’s. I wish one of the former dev
team would show up on PV and tell him to stop already, but if they know about him, they probably just see it as a mod and
ignore it, not realizing what he is doing.

EDIT: wrong word used.

[Prisoner416]

Though I am surprised that Wesp hasn't added the E3 demo to his mess yet...he's added everything else.

 Please, don't give him any ideas.

E3 demo? Never seen it... any sources?