TPG vs. UP: List Of Mods/Changes Added To VTMB Patches

[ShadowTek]

Wow, interesting post, Ive been reading allot of stuff here..

And there is one thing without a dough I can agree with.. If you keep putting out a new patch that fixes the game all the time even years after the game has been done.. every few weeks that does  stifle  any new mod that could come out, I hate to involve myself in any war or battle (but Ive read allot about it here and other sites, I have to admit, it was fun reading)

It makes allot of sense that a patch that fixes the game and nothing more is what a mod should be built on, not a patch that adds new stuff as I agree that this is fine, but its not a patch.. its a mod..

Now I have read steam, here, PV and other places..  and again, Im not taking sides, but I will say what I see.. I feel weps5 has allot to offer to people.. but compared to the patch here.. there IS a huge difference.. the patch here fixes the game... nothing more.. the unofficial patch adds and changes allot to the game.. thats not a patch.. its a mod..  so the point here is 100%  accurate.. You guys ONLY fixed the game, the UP is a mod..

The bad thing about this can be seen by the active mods that I play, Im playing CE now, and it seems that it is adding new stuff, but it also has to be constantly updated to the new UP, that is always adding new stuff (which is fine, but that makes it a mod, not a patch, and it also causes new issues) So I agree with the posts here.. The Gold patch here is simply a Patch that fixes the game, the UP is a patch that adds a ton of stuff not part of the game (Thus its a mod) this seems simple to me to see..

PS: I dont understand (hard feeling or no) why somone is willing to take on a massive new mod addition would not build it on a stable game rather then a mod that is always changeing, I thing the UP is misleading.. Its a good mod, but its not a patch, as pointed out here.. it makes as many problems as it fixes.

[Tessera]

PS: I dont understand (hard feeling or no) why someone is willing to take on a massive new mod addition would not build it on a stable game rather then a mod that is always changing

And I will give you the one, true answer to your question:

It's because those modders are idiots and status seekers... who prefer to belong to the status quo, rather than DO THE RIGHT THING.

The TPG is infinitely superior in every way to any of Wesp's crap, simply because it is STABLE and DOES NOT MODIFY THE GAME and also, it is CONSISTENT from one release to the next. If you were to build a mod based upon the TPG version of Bloodlines, then you could relax and be assured that any future updates to the TPG are extremely unlikely to introduce anything which interferes with your mod. Thus you will not be bothered with having to constantly update and re-release your mod every second Tuesday.

That's a much better set of circumstances for the modders, as well as for their intended audience. With the TPG, the modders win... the end users of their mods win... everybody wins. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is a jackass, who is lying to themselves as well as lying to everyone else.

I happen to be a modder... a rather successful modder, in fact. Sorry to blow my own horn here, but it is simply the truth: I know how to make good quality mods. Therefore, I know just a wee bit about what is or is not desirable, from a modder's standpoint. And what I would want most of all is to know that when I release a mod, it will be usable by everyone who plays the game in question. Furthermore, I would want some assurance that the core files of the game are not going to be constantly altered on a frequent basis... possibly to the point where my original mod would very quickly become dysfunctional and obsolete.

When you start with the TPG as your basis, you will have that assurance as a modder. But if you start with Wesp's horrible "unofficial patch," you can bet your ass that within a month or two, your mod may very well end up being undermined and/or degraded, thanks to all of the unnecessary and arbitrary changes that Wesp keeps inflicting upon the entire VTMB community. Several people have tried to explain these facts to Wesp, but to no avail. Wesp is without a doubt one of the most irresponsible, dictatorial and downright clueless motherfuckers that I have ever interacted with.

Fortunately, Wesp is no longer important. The TPG exists... it works beautifully... and it is the ideal basis upon which to build high-quality and long-lasting VTMB mods. That is a fact, not an opinion.

[Schu]

Exactly. I have been working on a mod for Bloodlines for awhile now, and I was using the TPG hotfix 4 when I started it.
Tessera has released 2 hotfixes since then and it had no effect what so ever on what I'm working on. Too make matters
better, the mod works on the vanilla version of the game as well.

Compatibility:
This mod was built using Win 7 64bit and tested using Win XP 32bit, so it should be compatabile with Vista
as well.
This mod is compatible with Troika's Official 1.2 patch. <Was only tested using Win XP 32bit>
It is unknown if this mod will be compatible with the Steam version of the game, because of the recent
changes made by Steam, and I do not own the Steam version, so I cant test it.
This mod is compatible with the True Patch, both the 504at and the Gold Edition.
This mod is compatible with Tessera's Mega Mod.
It is unknown if this mod is compatible with any version of the Unofficial Patch.<use it at your own risk>
It is unknown if this mod is compatible with any other mods.<see note above>
Disclaimer and other info at bottom of this page.

That is a piece of the read me for my mod. As you can see I have no intention of making it work with the UP, because if
I did this mod would never get finished due to you know who constantly changing his mod and messing around with files
that he shouldn't touch. The one time I tried to test using the UP with my mod, the game wouldn't even start. Adding mods
on to other mods can be problematic at best, unless those mods are designed to work with each other. Now Tessera's Mega Mod doesn't
use any of the files that I have changed, so I ran into few issues that were easily fixed (mostly Python).

[Tessera]

Well, my Mega-Mod is a totally different animal. It's the single largest VTMB mod in existence.

I made no attempt to keep my Mega-Mod compatible with anything other than the TPG.

Any modders who intend to make high-quality VTMB mods should be aware that the
VTMB Mega-Mod is extremely complex and almost qualifies as a total conversion at
this point. You may not have run into any conflicts, Schu, but I can guarantee that
any and all mods which involve map and texture edits will most likely slam right into
a brick wall if they are trying to co-exist with my Mega-Mod.

Thus it is important for me to say that if you are a modder and if you wish to create
a VTMB mod which will NOT conflict with my Mega-Mod, then you had better contact
me privately and discuss your situation. I will need to review your files and afterward,
I will tell you which (if any) will conflict with mine and tell you how to avoid that issue.

To reiterate... my Mega-Mod is very complex. At over 1 gigabyte in size, it could almost
be considered as an expansion pack. However, it is also a private mod, which I have not
released to the general public. Nor do I have any intentions of doing so. I'm retired.

[ShadowTek]

Whats the mega mod? Ive seen posts and that its not available anymore and seen that its huge (as you stated) what does it do?

On another note, that is what I have seen, people making big mods (The ones still active) have to re-construct there mods to fit the new UP, this is keeping each new version of the mod from growing allot as most likely it has to update to new things the UP adds and fix things the UP messed up, I know this because I read the posts on all the errors on both the new versions of the UP and older revisions.

Also though I didnt want to pick sides, I guess I have now, they (the other side) seems to hate anyone who is a friend here, and this place seems for more active and helpful then the other ones, plus, its clear the technical mod info and support here is far superior then other bloodline sites (miles ahead, in the short time Ive been here Ive learned a ton). Plus I'm me (ShadowTek) and I don't disguise my self on the net (I even posted my picture here) as I'm always ShadowTek, so this is my Bloodlines home now if you will have me, this is the only place that actually answers my questions, and in professorial ways, so thanks for that

Also as you said I see the common sense in building a mod on a stable fix of the game rather then a constantly changing mod.

prefer to belong to the status quo, rather than DO THE RIGHT THING

Thats too bad, I use common sense, but yeah most are sheep.. and I don't give a shit about status, I care about what makes the game better, thats why Im here and trying to mod the game myself (granted I'm no where on the level of you, but I have to start somewhere)

[Tessera]

Whats the mega mod? Ive seen posts and that its not available anymore and seen that its huge (as you stated) what does it do?

Members of this board can read about it here:

http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index.php/topic,57330.msg72983.html#msg72983

It is basically an enormous compilation of every single mod that I have ever produced for Bloodlines... plus a whole lot more.

[Ratcatcher]

Thats too bad, I use common sense, but yeah most are sheep

Common sense, not quite common anymore.

[Schu]

Lol, ain't that no shit.

Well, my Mega-Mod is a totally different animal. It's the single largest VTMB mod in existence.

I made no attempt to keep my Mega-Mod compatible with anything other than the TPG.

Oh, I understand completely what you're saying. I just wanted my creation to work with the Mega-Mod because I'm a
Mega-Mod user and I built it using the True Patch and if I would have run into any problems that I couldn't have figured
out, then I would have gotten a hold of you. Luckily I didn't have to do any map edits and what textures I did, didn't
interfere with your work. It also helped that I have the Mega-Mod so I could test it, using it.

The Mega-Mod complex? Na, not at all, only I still cant figure out how to make the Hooker rescue quest work Yeah I'm
still playing with it, trying to get it to work. I think I got the humanity issue straightened out, but the cop is being a pain.
I'll figure it out eventually, and when I do, I'm hoping it will be quest creation time, hopefully with Acrimonious' help.

[Tessera]

Ooops... I had forgotten about that. The hooker rescue sequence has already been fixed. The new Python is already written. I just haven't released it yet, because I'm still working on a few more details. Sorry... I forgot to tell you about it.

Anyway... we're off the subject here. We can talk more about the Mega-Mod up in the Mega-Mod thread.   

[kurtis64]

OMG, I always thought that with the unofficial patch the game was almost unrecognizable ...

[Tessera]

Most people have no idea just how many unnecessary and bogus changes Wesp has added
to Bloodlines. It's really rather shocking... and also very unethical on his part.

This thread... started by Schu... has been quite revealing. I have always known that Wesp
was lying to people about the actual nature of his "unofficial patch," but even I was shocked
by the sheer number of completely baseless changes introduced into Bloodlines by Wesp.

As you might imagine, this thread has infuriated the PlanetVampire community that Wesp
lords himself over. Many of them refuse to believe it... instead preferring to accuse Schu
of making all of this shit up.

But he didn't. And anyone who takes the time to fully analyze both lines of patches will
reach the exact same conclusions that Schu has. All it takes is a bit of honest work.

Wesp is a liar. His followers are liars, too. Thanks to Schu, we've proven it. End of story.

[Schu]

I was just over at the Steam forums looking around and found this little gem. I know its not exactly
related to the list, but it is related to the discussion. You guys are going to love this one.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2277581

I just love that he put a guard in the Skyline Apartments. I mean really? There is illegal activity going
on in there, like a manager who has his own little peep-show going on, plus a vampire living there,
LOL, how stupid can you get?

[ShadowTek]

Ahh ok Schu, yeah you made your point.. My bad.. as Im new here, yes also that link shows that after all this long, long time.. seems theres still issues with the "Unofficial" patch.. (as others see it, that is being the actual "unofficial patch") how did he get to claim that.... especially when all someone has to do is lurk here for a bit as I did.. to see the truth..

Funny as I found this place as a complaint on PV, googled tess's name, found this place, read the posts here, got my curiosity up, looked up the war, read war posts on all sites.. used my brain, and saw the truth.

Before I even joined I looked at the technical posts here, I also looked on other sites, after I joined and could see all the forums, I looked more and read allot..

I became a active member here for a few reasons.. even after posting on CE (ie Camarilla Edition) as they were cool..but..

1. This place fixed the game (period) anyone who spends time to look sees that, as a new buyer of the game, it took me a few days to find this place and see the truth.

2. the tech posts here on skill are better,  for example Schu's posts on python and scripting, are way ahead of weps5, in fact Ive seen actual posts on weps5 saying he couldnt upgrade to some version, and posts here saying its possible (as a new game player, and a programer (PHP and SQL, No Im no modder like tess) that says allot.

3. Tess though can be abrasive is fair (I can only go by my experience) hes answered my PM's and was nice to a shitty new modder to Bloodlines where as other sites really could care less.. they helped, but not like here (where I got actual tech info that is useful that I can use to be better)

4. As Im now looking at the files and learning how (trying) to add a new quest, I don't want to have to adjust all my work when the next patch comes out next Tuesday (as you guys say here lol) It will be based on the True patch and #6 hotfix.

5. This place is not dead.. PV is dead, all other bloodline sites are dead.. steam is alive and well (The bloodlines thread) but steam SUCKS!!!!!

So basically, between the intelligent help, the skill.. and dare I say (sorry tess.. dont wanna mess up your rep) the most helpful site.. It wasnt even a choice where to go.. of course Im new and as a new guy I saw this.. (that is I wasn't a member for ever on PV so they didn't have a chance to brainwash me lol)

Plus all anyone has to do is read the posts here (and on PV) and its easy to see the difference, thats all I did.


EDIT: I'll see if I can find the posts I talked about above.. the one by Schu and the one by weps5.. on scripting so you can see what I saw and what I mean..



ANOTHER EDIT: In case you are wondering why Im new and posting allot on this subject, the war interested me, so I read allot on it.. and I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this game.. its the coolest game ever.. I read how Tess got gained up on with a mop mentality, and even though he had the better product, he was attacked because he didnt go along with the UP mod..  Just read the posts in the war.. tess always insisted that the patch should only fix the game, weps5 didnt.. so there was a split.. Tess made a patch to fix the game, wesps5 decided to alter the game.. thats where the split happened..

[Schu]

That’s the whole thing right there. You did your own research, you looked into an argument with no preconceptions, then
made up your own mind instead of just jumping right in. Now many of the other new folks don't do that, they just go to
the PV or Steam boards and take what the UP crowd say, as being gospel and that ain't right. They don’t even bother to
try the True Patch first, they just jump on the band wagon and bad mouth others so they fit in.

1. This place fixed the game (period) anyone who spends time to look sees that, as a new buyer of the game, it took me a few days to find this place and see the truth.

2. the tech posts here on skill are better,  for example Schu's posts on python and scripting, are way ahead of weps5, in fact Ive seen actual posts on weps5 saying he couldnt upgrade to some version, and posts here saying its possible (as a new game player, and a programer (PHP and SQL, No Im no modder like tess) that says allot.

EDIT: I'll see if I can find the posts I talked about above.. the one by Schu and the one by weps5.. on scripting so you can see what I saw and what I mean..

If you are talking about the scripting 101 thread, that is Acrimonious' work not mine. When it comes to Python he is the
man, me, I have enough knowledge to be dangerous, but I'm still just learning. 

[Prisoner416]

Oh man... somebody please tell me that I am mistaken about this.  

Because if this is indeed the "Hellcat" reference that dopey Wesp and his nitwit buddies
have latched onto, then they are totally off-the-mark. The "Hellcat" mentioned in the
maps and scripts has nothing to do with demons. As a matter of fact, it has nothing
to do with the WoD in the first place. It is simply a model of a commercial tractor.
Just a piece of scenery, sitting around in the outside yard of the Oceanhouse Hotel.

Do a Google search under "Bobcat Hellcat," if you would like to see what it actually is.
It's just a mini-tractor made by the Bobcat company. There's a model of one sitting
right outside the Oceanhouse Hotel. Use your console to jump over to that map and
you can see it for yourself. The map in question is "sm_oceanhouse_1"

Ya know, every time I think to myself that Wesp and his goons couldn't possibly become
any more stupid than they already are... they consistently keep proving me wrong.

I really hope that I am mistaken about this, because if I am right and if that is indeed the
"Hellcat" that Wesp is referring to in his idiotic patch notes, then he has once again gone
right off the deep end and plunged into the very depths of clueless-ness.

 


EDIT to add: better yet, why don't I just show it to everyone for laughs...




Well there it is, ladies and gentlemen. The horrifying Hellcat from Bloodlines,
that Wesp was so eager to "restore" to the game. Except that as you can
plainly see, it doesn't need to be "restored." It's sitting right there, folks.

My sexy Malk is standing by for comic relief, just in case anyone is deeply
frightened by this image...

IT'S JUST A FUCKING TRACTOR. ROFL..!!!  

You are mistaken, somewhat. The restoration is that when you enter the trailer to get the key to the hotel, you hear a loud crash and the door slams closed. Honestly freaked me out a bit the first time. If you go outside, the Hellcat has moved to "ram" the trailer. It's possible this was a horror sequence that was never fully coded or implemented before the game was finished.

[Tessera]

You are mistaken, somewhat.

Yes, I know. I posted that back in July, before I fully understood what it was in reference to. However, I fully investigated this issue later on. See my next reply...

It's possible this was a horror sequence that was never fully coded or implemented before the game was finished.

Negative... it is a redundant sequence, which Troika deliberately disabled. I went into more detail about this particular Hellcat issue within the other thread which you posted this evening:

http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index.php/topic,58325.msg84510.html#msg84510

Please refer to that post for more information.  

For the record, the haunted hotel level was 100% completed by Troika prior to release. It is in fact one of the levels which they worked the hardest upon. Which in turn explains why, in its original default form, that level won an industry award in 2005 for "Best Level Design." There is absolutely nothing about it which needs to be changed... but try telling that to Wesp and his army of teenaged groupies.

[kurtis64]

I really would like to take this occasion, not so much to rant about Wesp and his "patch", but to give my greatest gratitude to Tessera.

When I started to play Bloodlines, I thought my only option to escape their numerous bugs was in the unofficial patch, and indeed this was always a source of discontent when I played.
Because, unlike most people, I do that I realized from the beginning of its many arbitrary changes and as bugs never disappeared entirely.

Another source of discontent was so frustrating to see how each week came a new version of the patch to Planet-Vampire, (by the way I adds that most people there I fell pretty bad), and another important source of cracks was see how Wesp included in each version of the patch the suggestions of anyone (which if I may say so, some were quite stupid), that seemed drawn from some fanfiction. It wasn't a serious work.

Then I met through another RPG forum this patch, which seemed to be exactly what I was wanting, and I rush to install... It worked perfectly and didn't add any stupid novelty!
I felt angry about how this patch seemed to be "in the  shadows" and how the hell is that no one had mentioned before, this didn't appear in any wedsite ...not even in patches-scroll.com!

So, I give my deepest gratitude to Tessera for their work, and though what I can do is little, I will do everything in my power  to make this patch better known, used and recommended, and to discourage the most many people as possible use the unofficial patch.

Thanks for a job so great and finally make my gaming experience with Bloodlines completely satisfactory.

[Tessera]

You are very welcome and I appreciate your kind words.  

One of the reasons that the True Patch is not better known is because of Wesp and his sabotage. I'm sorry to say that, but it is the truth. Over the course of the past five years, whenever any mention of the True Patch showed up on various gaming boards... or in the Wikipedia... Wesp and his PlanetVampire goon squad would almost instantly descend upon those sites and start slandering me, and the True Patch, and this community. Basically, they have gone out of their way to bullshit the larger VTMB community, and bully everyone into using Wesp's horrible garbage.

We have never... not once... invaded any of the threads devoted to Wesp and his work on other web sites. But in stark contrast, Wesp has invaded EVERY SINGLE THREAD which has ever been posted about the True Patch. Every single one... whether it was posted on PV, or on the Steam boards, or on any other game-related forum board. It almost makes me think that Wesp sits in front of his computer every day, running endless Google searches for any and all references to the True Patch. And if he finds anything new, then he runs right over to that site and then starts spreading his idiotic anti-True Patch rhetoric. You can almost set your watch by the guy... he really is that consistent with his behavior.

What this tells me is that Wesp and his acolytes do not want you to be playing Bloodlines. They want you to be playing THEIR VERSION of Bloodlines. And if you don't, then you can bet that they will treat you like you were some kind of alien and force you out of their midst. It is a very insecure little club that they have established for themselves and on the whole, they are just plain WRONG on every single count. They believe that they are helping to keep this game alive. But in reality, what they have actually done is to undermine this game, bastardize it, and divide its fans into two bitterly opposed camps. And to make matters worse, they have also managed to make it extremely difficult for the modding community to produce any high-quality and consistent mods for this game. So in the final analysis, they are actually doing more to HURT Bloodlines than to help it.

All I ever wanted was to fix the bugs in this game... and that's it. The feud which developed between Wesp and myself was started not by us, but by Wesp. When I first announced my intentions to create an alternate patch, way back in late 2006, Wesp and his PV goon squad lost their fucking minds and they've been fighting against us ever since.

Fortunately, none of that insanity really matters any more. The True Patch is here to stay. It is freely available to everyone who takes the time to find it. Its popularity has been steadily growing ever since 2007. And whether Wesp likes it or not, and whether he can admit it or not, the current True Patch Gold Edition fixes just as many LEGITIMATE bugs as any of his own "unofficial patches" do. And we accomplished all of that without making the numerous blunders that Wesp has made over the years, nor have we done anything to corrupt Troika's final masterpiece.

The best thing that everyone can do is to keep spreading the CORRECT information about the True Patch. And of course, be prepared for the inevitable confrontations which will occur when the Wesp groupies circle their wagons and begin attacking you. They are nothing but overgrown children... so my suggestion is to regard them as such, and just keep telling everyone the truth. Perhaps one day, the larger VTMB community will finally "get it" and learn to shun Wesp and his destructive horseshit altogether. Hey -- we can hope.

Many thanks for your support.